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	<title>Comments on: Why take the chance?</title>
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	<link>http://ksmith.in/inmediasres/2008/09/19/why-take-the-chance/</link>
	<description>in the midst of things</description>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://ksmith.in/inmediasres/2008/09/19/why-take-the-chance/#comment-1000</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blog/?p=794#comment-1000</guid>
		<description>I realize that you may be in a different place right now, or be interested
 in other topics, but nonetheless I am responding to your questions in this
 post because I believe these opinions are founded in a misunderstanding of
 the pro-choice movement, and I am trying as politely as I can to explain my
 position. I hope you will take this in the spirit in which it was intended.

 --------------------------

 Kevin, to answer your questions 1-5 above, I don&#039;t think anyone argues
 that a fetus isn&#039;t living. Sure it is, just like a virus or a chicken or a
 mushroom is living. The question is whether a fetus has an awareness or
 conscious of itself or has a soul.

 We KNOW through science and observation that living, breathing babies, and
 adults, and VIABLE fetuses have a separate awareness and consciousness.
 Which is why infanticide and murder are crimes.

 But I don&#039;t think anyone can argue reasonably or prove that a clump of
 cells the size of a thumbnail (heartbeat or no) can have a consciousness or
 self-awareness of any degree.

 If you want to argue that a clump has a soul, that is fine, but you cannot
 legislate that I believe it has one, and you cannot require that I submit my
 body to any religious theory whatever. You cannot require that I nurture a
 clump of cells that I do not believe to have consciousness until it is able
 to live on its own.

 It&#039;s as if I required you to grow a tumor for a year in order to serve my
 spiritual needs. Imagine that I believe a great God, Tumora, exists, and
 that in order to serve him, I need you not to treat a cancer you&#039;ve
 discovered in your lungs.

 I don&#039;t care if it is in your best interests or not; Tumora needs you to
 nurture this tumor.

 I don&#039;t care if you don&#039;t believe in Tumora or not; I believe that your
 tumor is sacred to Tumora and that you&#039;re committing a crime by getting
 radiologic/chemotherapy.

 I don&#039;t care whether you believe the tumor has a soul or not; Tumora needs
 it.

 AND I don&#039;t care about your ability to make a decision to believe in
 Tumora or not -- I believe in Tumora, and to use your own words, &quot;if
 you’re unsure about when life begins, why chance it?&quot; If you&#039;re not sure
 Tumora exists, why chance it?

 I am worried enough about your IMMORTAL SOUL and your chance to go to
 Tumora&#039;s heaven, that I will take away utterly your options to rid yourself
 of this tumor, and make sure that you obey His will.

 Can you see where I am coming from on this? Murder is different from
 abortion because the first takes away a consciousness that can be seen and
 be proven to exist. The second takes away a consciousness that may or may
 not exist according to various religious opinions and theorys.

 I&#039;m not talking about 3rd trimester abortion, which contrary to the belief
 of many, is rare and undesirable for 99.9999999% of all mothers who get that
 far. No woman who gets that far in a pregnancy has a (very dangerous,
 expensive, painful) operation for a frivolous reason -- these are the
 fetuses that have no brain or no spinal cord and will die within minutes of
 being born.

 And I don&#039;t believe children are cancerous tumors, in case that isn&#039;t
 clear.

 I simply believe that unless you can make a PROVABLE case that a nine-week
 old fetus has consciousness and viability, you are in the realm of personal
 spiritual choice and responsibility, and that that must be left up to the
 person within whom the clump is growing. If you can&#039;t trust her to make her
 own personal choices and deal with God or Tumora in her own way, how can you
 trust her at all?

 Hope this all makes sense. Best wishes to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize that you may be in a different place right now, or be interested<br />
 in other topics, but nonetheless I am responding to your questions in this<br />
 post because I believe these opinions are founded in a misunderstanding of<br />
 the pro-choice movement, and I am trying as politely as I can to explain my<br />
 position. I hope you will take this in the spirit in which it was intended.</p>
<p> &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p> Kevin, to answer your questions 1-5 above, I don&#8217;t think anyone argues<br />
 that a fetus isn&#8217;t living. Sure it is, just like a virus or a chicken or a<br />
 mushroom is living. The question is whether a fetus has an awareness or<br />
 conscious of itself or has a soul.</p>
<p> We KNOW through science and observation that living, breathing babies, and<br />
 adults, and VIABLE fetuses have a separate awareness and consciousness.<br />
 Which is why infanticide and murder are crimes.</p>
<p> But I don&#8217;t think anyone can argue reasonably or prove that a clump of<br />
 cells the size of a thumbnail (heartbeat or no) can have a consciousness or<br />
 self-awareness of any degree.</p>
<p> If you want to argue that a clump has a soul, that is fine, but you cannot<br />
 legislate that I believe it has one, and you cannot require that I submit my<br />
 body to any religious theory whatever. You cannot require that I nurture a<br />
 clump of cells that I do not believe to have consciousness until it is able<br />
 to live on its own.</p>
<p> It&#8217;s as if I required you to grow a tumor for a year in order to serve my<br />
 spiritual needs. Imagine that I believe a great God, Tumora, exists, and<br />
 that in order to serve him, I need you not to treat a cancer you&#8217;ve<br />
 discovered in your lungs.</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t care if it is in your best interests or not; Tumora needs you to<br />
 nurture this tumor.</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t care if you don&#8217;t believe in Tumora or not; I believe that your<br />
 tumor is sacred to Tumora and that you&#8217;re committing a crime by getting<br />
 radiologic/chemotherapy.</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t care whether you believe the tumor has a soul or not; Tumora needs<br />
 it.</p>
<p> AND I don&#8217;t care about your ability to make a decision to believe in<br />
 Tumora or not &#8212; I believe in Tumora, and to use your own words, &#8220;if<br />
 you’re unsure about when life begins, why chance it?&#8221; If you&#8217;re not sure<br />
 Tumora exists, why chance it?</p>
<p> I am worried enough about your IMMORTAL SOUL and your chance to go to<br />
 Tumora&#8217;s heaven, that I will take away utterly your options to rid yourself<br />
 of this tumor, and make sure that you obey His will.</p>
<p> Can you see where I am coming from on this? Murder is different from<br />
 abortion because the first takes away a consciousness that can be seen and<br />
 be proven to exist. The second takes away a consciousness that may or may<br />
 not exist according to various religious opinions and theorys.</p>
<p> I&#8217;m not talking about 3rd trimester abortion, which contrary to the belief<br />
 of many, is rare and undesirable for 99.9999999% of all mothers who get that<br />
 far. No woman who gets that far in a pregnancy has a (very dangerous,<br />
 expensive, painful) operation for a frivolous reason &#8212; these are the<br />
 fetuses that have no brain or no spinal cord and will die within minutes of<br />
 being born.</p>
<p> And I don&#8217;t believe children are cancerous tumors, in case that isn&#8217;t<br />
 clear.</p>
<p> I simply believe that unless you can make a PROVABLE case that a nine-week<br />
 old fetus has consciousness and viability, you are in the realm of personal<br />
 spiritual choice and responsibility, and that that must be left up to the<br />
 person within whom the clump is growing. If you can&#8217;t trust her to make her<br />
 own personal choices and deal with God or Tumora in her own way, how can you<br />
 trust her at all?</p>
<p> Hope this all makes sense. Best wishes to you.</p>
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